AI is making it easier to create, automate, and move faster, but can it replace the experience needed to develop good judgment? Matt sits down with fractional CXO Jennifer Severns to explore human-centered AI and why technology should enhance, not replace, critical thinking, craft, and human connection. Jennifer explains why AI can be a powerful shortcut for experts, but relying on it without lived experience can lead to work that feels hollow or simply “off.” From design and customer experience to creativity and innovation, she shares why understanding the human on the other side should remain at the focus. What you’ll learn in this episode: - Why you can’t shortcut craft and judgment - What human-centered AI really means - How AI can amplify expertise - Why critical thinking still matters Check out Jennifer on LinkedIn! https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennerus/
AI is making it easier to create, automate, and move faster, but can it replace the experience needed to develop good judgment?
Matt sits down with fractional CXO Jennifer Severns to explore human-centered AI and why technology should enhance, not replace, critical thinking, craft, and human connection.
Jennifer explains why AI can be a powerful shortcut for experts, but relying on it without lived experience can lead to work that feels hollow or simply “off.” From design and customer experience to creativity and innovation, she shares why understanding the human on the other side should remain at the center.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
Check out Jennifer on LinkedIn!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennerus/
Jennifer: [00:00:00] AI's just another technology tool. What scares me is not that people now, who are experts in their craft, are using it for shortcuts, because I think it can be wonderful for that. What scares me is that people who have not worked in the craft and understood it are using AI and they're not going to realize
Jennifer: That this is off.
Matt: Jennifer Severance.
Jennifer: Yes.
Matt: Thanks for being here. You're a fractional CXO.
Jennifer: I am.
Matt: And an introvert.
Jennifer: And an introvert. You just told me. Yes. Uh, I, I mean, I don't know that there's a distinct line between introvert or extrovert- Yeah ... but if there were, I'm solidly on the side of
Matt: introvert. And I think I'm on the extrovert side, but I-
Jennifer: I think you are, too.
Jennifer: You
Matt: think so?
Jennifer: I mean, by- I wouldn't ... by the general definitions of extrovert. Okay. Just when I got to know you at Brand Smart-
Matt: Yeah ...
Jennifer: you have a very outgoing personality.
Matt: And I think it's- Yeah ... isn't it, like, where you get your energy? Like, if you get your energy-
Jennifer: Yeah ...
Matt: from being around people, and that-
Jennifer: Yeah
Matt: amps you up, or if you get your energy from sort of-
Jennifer: Yeah, that's what I hear.
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: [00:01:00] But I get... I do get my energy from these-
Matt: Okay ...
Jennifer: types of conversations.
Matt: Well, so then it isn't just a one box- Yeah ... you check it.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: Okay.
Jennifer: Well- I don't think it is. I think the world is nuanced.
Matt: That works well into our conversation today about human-centered AI, and there's a lot of nuance in that.
Matt: Yes,
Jennifer: for sure.
Matt: And we're gonna get into that, but you are a fractional CXO. What does that mean?
Jennifer: Yes.
Matt: And who is that for?
Jennifer: That's, that's a nuance, too, right?
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: I have a primary client where I'm doing, uh, member experience for them, so that involves... I mean, it involves a lot of things, right?
Jennifer: It involves mainly centered around the members' experience, but also the, uh, customer care reps' experience as
Matt: well. This is a healthcare company?
Jennifer: Yes. It's a healthcare company. It's a, it's a startup based from a larger, more established company. Sure. It's kind of like this little spinoff. Um, and it's very much based on care reps that call- Mm
Jennifer: over the phone, very old school.
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: Dealing with Medicare, Medicaid. Um, so I think it's a lot [00:02:00] about, you know, just what I'm seeking out nowadays is more about people who understand that the human is import- the im- most important part of the process.
Matt: Mm.
Jennifer: Uh, even in business. People who recognize if you build a, a solid, authentic relationship with your customers and with the people that work for you and with those around you, that it benefits the company longterm.
Matt: Right.
Jennifer: Because I think the world is, the business world especially, but the entire world is getting away from that idea of building strong, long-lasting relationships and looking more at, like, immediate gratification and short-term gains.
Matt: And AI's helping.
Jennifer: Oh, yeah. A ton.
Matt: A lot?
Jennifer: Yes. Yes.
Matt: Well, let's get into that in a second, but are you ready for a rapid fire get to know Jennifer-
Jennifer: I think
Matt: so ... questionnaire? Okay.
Jennifer: I think so. Uh,
Matt: When is the last time that you sang to yourself, and what was the song, if you can remember? Oh,
Jennifer: The most recent one would be Paula [00:03:00] Abdul's Straight Up.
Matt: Oh, I love that song.
Jennifer: The reason why is because next week we have... I'm part of a dance performance group, very amateur.
Jennifer: Um, and we have '80s themed show coming up on Friday, not this Friday, but next Friday. And, uh, we have, like, a routine that's a medley of different female '80s artists, and Paula Abdul- Oh, yeah ... is part of that. And I got this massive bruise on my knee, so I'm like, you know, I was just talking about it this morning about it being my Straight Up bruise.
Jennifer: Because I d- I did- Related to Paula Abdul ... Yeah, I, I like e- You have to end up on your knee. Okay. And I didn't do it the right way, so I bruised myself.
Matt: Um, tell me something beautiful
Matt: Doesn't have to be like a poem that you just wrote. It can be just something that you find beautiful
Jennifer: This is gonna sound so cheesy
Matt: Yes.
Jennifer: But self-acceptance- Mm ... and self-love, [00:04:00] I think- Yeah ... is beautiful.
Matt: Yeah. I think that's beautiful.
Jennifer: It's cheesy. But-
Matt: You know what?
Matt: I, I'm gonna use that one too. I have a three-year-old, and sor- I was just reminiscing on how she's not judging herself in any way right now. Yeah.
Jennifer: I know.
Matt: And how pure that is and how, you know, how hard it's gonna be when that stuff starts coming from the outside. And can we do our part? You know, you can't, you can only do so much, I think.
Matt: But to- Yeah ... sorta give her that resilience or that s- self-love and yeah. Man, I just like- Yeah ... I just don't want it to ever go away.
Jennifer: Yeah. Um- In my experience, that's all about modeling it-
Matt: Mm-hmm ...
Jennifer: for them. Yeah. Which is hard to do, right? Yeah. It's hard.
Matt: It is. It is. We went deep. Jennifer the professional, um, thinking about your career, so you started off in design?
Jennifer: Yes.
Matt: Um, what's another milestone before getting to the CXO? What was something that happened between-
Jennifer: Defining moments ...
Matt: design... Yeah, one [00:05:00] or, one or two.
Jennifer: Let's go for terms. Yes. Um, it's funny, I did a map of defining moments in my career.
Matt: Oh, cool.
Jennifer: Um, and I sometimes go back to that. And now that you're asking me, it's like poof.
Matt: It's not there.
Jennifer: Um, I would say-
Matt: Let me tap dance while you-
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: Da-dee-dee-da-da-da.
Jennifer: Um, defining moment, I would say, um... God, I had, I have these. So definitely working at Harpo.
Matt: Harpo Studios. Yes. Oprah- Oprah ... for those who don't know.
Jennifer: Yes. So it was hard, hard work, and I didn't know it at the time that we were doing amazing stuff.
Jennifer: I was looking at the, the analytics, and I remember just getting addicted to this idea of, you know, you could change a few things about a page that everybody was going to, and it, it would reroute [00:06:00] the users on the site. Mm-hmm. And it was like this feeling of like, you know, great power, great responsibility.
Jennifer: Like, you know, we better be, we better be- doing something useful and saying something useful What
Matt: are we gonna route them to?
Jennifer: Yes. What are we routing them to? Are we, are we ensuring we're delivering on what they're looking for? You know- This
Matt: would be like the website for, for Oprah?
Jennifer: Yeah. It definitely taught me about user experience in a way that I don't think any school could, I don't think any other, you know, agency work could have done.
Jennifer: It's like it was so extreme-
Matt: Mm ...
Jennifer: the amount of people that would hit all at once for one thing- Right ... looking for one thing, that it was, it was always this ongoing challenge of how do we, how do we really figure out what people are looking for?
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: That's cool, it's interesting to connect those dots, you know, hearing you so intrigued by that question and what you're doing today.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: Um, let's talk about this [00:07:00] concept of human-centered AI.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: And I think the reason why I w- wanted to talk to you about this, I saw you speak at, um, at Brand Smart AMA's event, and you talked about this, and it's, I just thought, "Gosh, everybody's throwing this term around- Mm-hmm ... human-centered AI." Yeah. And I, and I still don't know what it means.
Matt: I thought you did a good job of describing it, but could you define what that is- Human-centered AI ... when people are saying that?
Jennifer: People throw that word around a lot as, like, you know, some kind of- core principle without really-
Matt: Yeah ...
Jennifer: without really practicing it.
Matt: Well, it sounds good, right?
Matt: Because it's like, well, it kind of speaks to the people who are sort of scared of AI or concerned with AI- Yeah ... or against it. Yeah. It's like, "Don't worry, it's human."
Jennifer: Yeah. So,
Matt: so human-
Jennifer: Exactly. Yeah ... AI.
Matt: It's,
Jennifer: it's for the humans. Don't
Matt: worry.
Jennifer: Yeah, don't worry. It's for the humans. It's not for money. They are jumping on the human-centered bandwagon, which I think is great if you were really to boil it down to practical application, how do you do human-centered AI,
Jennifer: what you have to do is listen. And whenever I hear ideas, I think [00:08:00] ideas are great, but whenever I hear ideas and somebody going r- and this happens probably every day in my career life, is somebody will say, "What do you think, what do you think we should do about this?"
Jennifer: And they'll give you choices for the customer, and they'll say, "You're the expert." Now,
Matt: what's an ex- example of that?
Jennifer: So at AMA, which, uh, American Marketing Association- Yeah ... um, which I'm involved on the board, um, sometimes there will be questions that come out that's like, "Oh, members want this," or, you know, "Should we do this type
Jennifer: Should we do this type of event or this type of event?"
Matt: Should we do a networking event or a-
Jennifer: Exactly ...
Matt: thing where we talk at them?
Jennifer: Exactly.
Matt: Which one should we do?
Jennifer: Exactly. And, and marketers are very guilty of that as well. Like-
Matt: I'm guilty
Jennifer: of it most times. Yeah, like you cut out the whole research part, which is the whole point of understanding your customer.
Jennifer: Like, we are not the customer. Even-
Matt: What would the right question sound like?
Jennifer: Um, it would be a question. [00:09:00] It would be a question.
Matt: Without answers or options?
Jennifer: It would, it would be a what are you trying to do, like the, the how might we exercises. How, what are, what are we trying to achieve, right?
Matt: Mm. How do we get to this outcome-
Jennifer: Yes
Jennifer: is the
Matt: question. Yes.
Jennifer: Not what
Matt: should
Jennifer: we do.
Matt: Versus not which strategy should we pick.
Jennifer: Like, I used to have, um, the scientific method, back when I had an office, on my, on my wall in my office because people were constantly coming to me like, "Oh, you know, content team had a really good idea, um, so we need to implement, we need, you know, resources to implement XYZ," and I would, I would point to the scientific method.
Jennifer: What, what is your question that you're trying to answer, right? Why? Mm. Why are you doing this? Like, what is this for? Because I am a huge believer, and I think the action of human-centered anything is test and learn.
Matt: Mm.
Jennifer: It's, it's a scientific process.
Matt: When you talk about human-centered AI, are you using that framing [00:10:00] as a way to- ha- have people think differently about how to use AI specifically?
Jennifer: I think it's, it's, it's all technology. Yeah. Right? Um, one of the things that bugs me most about technology is that people are rushing to get, you know, let's just face it, revenue, for example. Like, they're, they're racing to get their KPIs as quick as possible. Like, it's a sh- finding the shortcuts, and they're seeing AI- Yeah
Jennifer: as a shortcut. And the AI can be a shortcut for a lot of things, but what we're forgetting, and this is something that came up at Brandsmart, what we're forgetting is that everything that we do ultimately serves the human experience, because we're self-centered, right? Even if it's, like, machine to machine, ultimately it's affecting the human experience, because that's the whole
Matt: point.
Matt: That's the whole point in the first place. Yeah.
Jennifer: Yeah, we're trying to- That's why we're here in this world, right?
Matt: Build a relationship-
Jennifer: Right ...
Matt: build rapport.
Jennifer: Exactly. Exactly. And even if you're not building a relationship, it's all about getting a human to [00:11:00] buy something, whether they want to or not. So whenever you're creating anything, whether it's a message or a product, it's all for humans, and humans learn and get, gain wisdom through lived experience, right?
Jennifer: So if I'm doing shortcuts through that lived experience in, in the back office, right? Like, I used the example of a logo. You can create a logo through AI, and it's probably good enough, right? But when I go through the process of creating a, a logo as somebody who's had a lot of lived experience and gathered wisdom about what works and what doesn't work, it comes through, right?
Jennifer: Mm-hmm. But it, not only does it come through, but a lot of what we're seeing now in social media, what social media has done is it, it's kind of hollowed out a lot of the work that we do. And it's not like you can necessarily put a finger on it. You know the- Mm, right ... uncanny valley that they talk about?
Matt: Yeah. With,
Jennifer: like, you know- That p- there's something [00:12:00] off
Matt: Something's off.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: And, you know, eventually people get used to that and don't see it- Yeah, and it's no
Matt: longer the thing that's off, right ...
Jennifer: but is it that they get used to it, or is it that more of it looks like that, right?
Matt: Mm.
Jennifer: And so that's kind of what's happened with the news, it's happened with music, it's happened with, um, content that you consume all the time.
Jennifer: It's hollowed out, and we don't even recognize it because it's really difficult to find something that has care taken with it, that- Yeah ... that was, that came from that lived experience and wisdom. So somebody who's never designed a logo before could go, you know, prompt on AI. I don't, I don't know if it would come out great or not.
Matt: Right.
Jennifer: You know, maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. It would depend on their judgment. But they don't have the wisdom and judgment of somebody who has that lived experience.
Matt: Sure. Yeah, and I think, I mean, that's where you, what you can't outsource, right, is the... [00:13:00] You can't outsource taste. You can't outsource- Mm-hmm
Matt: that creative vision part of like, where are we going? Yeah. And well, what's, what's gonna connect with a human? You still have to put those filters on, right? Yeah. Um-
Jennifer: Yeah. Same with, same with art. Like, back to the watercolor thing, right? You could, you could export... Like, you could, you know, have AI do a watercolor that looks like a Sargent painting, you know, frame it, put it up on your wall.
Jennifer: But if you're actually, like, exploring painting, right? Mm. Which is, which is what is so amazing about art, is not in the end product, it is what it represents, the exploration. Right. Like Impressionists and Monet, it's, it's, it's the growth and the innovation which we're starting to diminish because if you don't have that lived experience, you don't...
Jennifer: It's, it's just a replica-
Matt: Right, right ...
Jennifer: we are kind of extracting the apprenticeship experience in, [00:14:00] in business or in anything really, right? So it's really hard to find startup jobs because they're like, "AI can do all of this."
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: Well, all of these people who have the lived experience and the learned wisdom that create things like that, like, you know, let's say music, right? All these musicians who struggled and had that experience, yeah, they can, they can use AI, other people can use AI to, to replicate that experience- Right
Jennifer: to replicate a Sargent painting. But eventually, if there's no more people having the lived experience, there's no more impressionist innovations. There's no more innovation, like breakthrough- Right ... innovation. It just becomes this cycle of iteration w- you know, replicas of itself.
Matt: When you're buying a painting, sometimes I don't even think it's just the painting itself.
Matt: You're bu- you're, like, buying the, the story of the artist and what they did when-
Jennifer: Yeah ...
Matt: their first painting to now, and there's a whole world that exists- Yes ... underneath that tip of that iceberg, right? With [00:15:00] art in particular.
Jennifer: Yeah. But the whole point of it is the experience.
Jennifer: I didn't become a master potter. Is that what they call them?
Matt: Master potter? Master potter, sir.
Matt: Um, well, it's interesting too because I, so I think of myself as an artist, at least on the, it's not how I make my living. I am in the business of creating, but it's not necessarily, like, my expression of myself. I'm helping other people do that. But, um, but, like, the line is so blurry to me with, like, where does it become human-centered and not?
Matt: I have this conversation with my wife all the time, who is very much like, she's a tat- she's a tattoo artist for her career. She stopped a couple years ago when we had a kid, but she's been a painter, and so she's an artist, and she has been, and that's how she's made her living. But I make, and I make, uh, music, music, and I've been making children's music, and mostly 'cause I have a kid now, and I'm like, and I also already making these songs for my kid, and now like I'm just gonna do this more and more.
Matt: Yeah. But I've started [00:16:00] experimenting with AI music.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: And, but with the purpose of I'm still writing the song, I'm still writing the melody. I'll even recor- I'll even re- do it all acoustic guitar first, but then I'm like, I wanna make it, I wanna make a dance beat.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: And I want it to s- what does it sound like if it has horns- Yes
Matt: and blah, blah, blah. And I'll run it through the, the machine, and it'll come back and be like, that's the exact same structure, melody, all that stuff. Then I take out the voice and I record my voice, and it gets, and we- it's funny to have this conversation with my wife 'cause it's like you're taking, you know, one of the things she says is, "Are you taking out the process, the hard process- Yeah
Matt: of going from beginning to end-
Jennifer: Yeah ...
Matt: like you've done in the past?"
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: And I'm like, "I am, but I'm also, like, able to do things I've never been able to do before."
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: And so, like, where does it, where- That's the exciting part of AI ...
Jennifer: what's
Matt: okay?
Jennifer: Right? And it, and it- What is an okay and what is- We don't, I don't think we know what's okay and what's not.
Jennifer: I, I think the main thing, to me, the main thing is that we can't extract craft from it, right?
Matt: Yeah.
Jennifer: So [00:17:00] you've been doing music well before you started experimenting- Yeah,
Matt: a
Jennifer: while, yeah ... with AI. So you have already formed your, uh, what's the word? It's my taste, right? It's my- Judgment Yeah ... your, your critical thinking-
Matt: Right
Jennifer: if you will, about music.
Matt: What's good, what I like, what
Jennifer: I- Yes ... what fits What you're going for, right? Right. So I think it starts with intention, right? What
Matt: are you
Jennifer: going for? Yeah. Just the same in business. What are you trying to do? What's the whole point? What do you want to come out of this at the end of it?
Jennifer: And then have that as your core guiding light, right? But AI's just another technology tool. What scares me is not that people now, who are experts in their craft, are using it for shortcuts, because I think it can be wonderful for that. What scares me is that people who have not worked in the craft and understood it are using AI and they're not going to realize
Jennifer: That this is off.
Matt: It's interesting, going back to your, like, the young people side of this where they're missing out on the reps to go through and, like, [00:18:00] learn the craft, right? You have kids that are, like, at that age of Early career, right? Yeah. How are you, how are they navigating this? How are you helping them navigate this? Well- Or what does that conversation sound like?
Jennifer: So my daughter is going through the exact same program that I went through, um, the University of Tennessee graphic design. It's a really good program.
Jennifer: Same thing, they're teaching her fundamentals. They're s- teaching her critical thinking. They're still doing, you know, putting up their work and doing critiques and talking through that, right? Th- there you're learning. That was the best thing about my education. It wasn't learning Photoshop and learning, you know- The technology
Jennifer: at the time Page- Right ... Pagemaker- ... all of these things that were around then. Yeah. Clearly it wasn't.
Matt: But it will change.
Jennifer: It will change. It will always
Matt: change.
Jennifer: But when you're learning, even when you're learning software, you're learning fundamentals about how this stuff works. Yeah. So then when you go into a new piece of software, you have some wisdom there that you're- Right
Jennifer: carrying through. So when I was in school, you couldn't, [00:19:00] for the first two years into design, you could not use the computer, so we were literally doing Press Type- Mm ... like very old school stuff. It helped me understand the importance of typography, for example.
Matt: Right.
Jennifer: That shapes and colors and, you know, layouts, they all mean something, and they all have mental models that other humans encounter, right? Mm-hmm. So that, that's why as a designer, I feel like it is so important not just for designers to hone their craft, for marketers, for anybody who's creating anything for humans, which is pretty much all of us, right?
Jennifer: Mm-hmm. Even if it's just language or an email, for all of us to make sure that we're not losing our critical thinking because- As a designer, I understand that there are mental models behind everything that we do as a society. Like, there's f- there's less and less shared experiences happening- Mm-hmm
Jennifer: because we're customizing everything. So all of this is moving [00:20:00] away from critical thinking, moving away from connecting with other humans on a large scale. It's, you know, polarizing people w- in politics. It's, it's m- making people have less in common. Like, you know, I could just... There was serendipity. I could run into somebody that I worked with and talk about something stupid like whatever show, you know,
Jennifer: and now we don't, we don't have that anymore.
Matt: I re- Just the isolating
Jennifer: side of us ... That's what scares me most about AI. To bring it back to human-centered AI, it's about really understanding and having that empathy and understanding the receiver of, the recipient of what you're doing and the long-term consequence.
Jennifer: Like, really thinking about that, right? Mm-hmm. So when you're using AI, for example, not just blindly using it, but really thinking, like, "Is this, is this gonna have unintended consequences either in the short term or the long term? What are the [00:21:00] things that I need to look out for?"
Matt: You can't shortcut the craft.
Matt: And it's interesting, as I fancy myself a craftsperson in the fields that I've chosen, um, using AI in a sort of when I- whenever I use it in a short-term way of thinking, like I just need to get this thing done fast, whatever it is, and it's kind of a big deal, but, like, I don't have time. It's always garbage in, garbage out, right?
Matt: Using AI has forced me to think so much more about my potential clients and, and, and current clients and the person I'm trying to connect with on the other side of this thing I'm working on.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Matt: Because I keep on giving it garbage, and it keeps on giving me garbage back. Yeah.
Jennifer: Well, and even if you-
Matt: So it's interesting ...
Matt: well, I have one more question to wrap this up, and it's a little bit of, of a different r- topic here. What is a, uh, word or a phrase we should no longer use in the workplace?
Jennifer: Word or phrase
Matt: What comes to mind?
Jennifer: So I'm not big on banning words [00:22:00] and phrases, I mean, except obvious- Banning of certain really offensive words or phrases.
Jennifer: Yeah. Um, I think that it's more, it's more about understanding why you're using it, using it. Like, I see-
Matt: Such a thing to say as a, as a CxO. CxO would totally say that. That's so CxO. No, I,
Jennifer: I, like, like the term AI
Matt: first, whenever I see
Jennifer: that- Yeah ... I mean, that bothers me, AI first. Um, but it's when you're using it as like a... What do they call that when you're just, like, pretending you're something?
Matt: Mm. Vi- uh, virtue signaling?
Jennifer: Yeah. Like virtue signaling. As a company, when you're just saying AI first 'cause you want to sound like you're-
Matt: Yeah
Jennifer: high-tech or whatever. When you're, you know, I think it's appropriate in context, right? Sure. It's appropriate in context in terms of, you know, um, rather than, you know, trying to automate something, like maybe it's AI first automation. I don't know. [00:23:00] Right. Or maybe it's AI first something. I'm sure there's, there's some way to use it contextually.
Jennifer: Um, but I don't like banning stuff because I think words, you know, words are important. It's important. It's hard for us to align on a word, so I think it's mainly, like when you're saying something, like human-centered, understanding what do you mean-
Matt: Yeah ...
Jennifer: when you say it. And
Matt: I think that's the thing is it, that AI first, human-centered, it gets thrown around so much and I, I think s- it's, I don't even know how you solve it, especially for big companies in the marketing side, but it's like, well, there are four of us huge companies competing, and they're making more revenue because they keep saying AI first.
Matt: Yeah. And like, we have to say- Yeah. Yeah ... AI first now. And it's like, oh, I'm the, the, just the marketing department- Yeah ... not the other w- so it's like-
Jennifer: Well, and that's a race to the bottom too.
Matt: It's a r- it is. I mean, I get it
Jennifer: though.
Matt: Like, you have to- It's short-term thinking ... yeah,
Jennifer: you
Matt: have to be able
Jennifer: to do it.
Matt: Um, but I think, I think it's, that's the trap- Yes ... with those types of terms- [00:24:00] Yes ... and why people use it. And now I think it's like saying internet first. At some point it's gonna get sound really silly
Matt: jennifer, this was great.
Matt: Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. Um, and, uh, go humans.
Jennifer: Go humans. Team human. Team humans. Awesome.
Matt: Awesome.