A town hall can announce a transformation, but it can’t make change happen on its own. Matt sits down with Sylvia Maldonado, a fractional communications chief, to unpack why organizations often get transformation and change communications wrong. Sylvia explains why communications leaders need to think like business partners and help employees understand what’s changing, why it matters, and what’s in it for them. What you’ll learn in this episode: - Why the “one and done” town hall mentality doesn’t work - How leaders can make transformation communications more human and effective - Why CEOs, managers, peers, and frontline employees all have a role in communication - How to connect communications and content to real business outcomes Check out Sylvia on LinkedIn! https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylviamaldonado/
A town hall can announce a transformation, but it can’t make change happen on its own. Matt sits down with Sylvia Maldonado, a fractional communications chief, to unpack why organizations often get transformation and change communications wrong. Sylvia explains why communications leaders need to think like business partners and help employees understand what’s changing, why it matters, and what’s in it for them.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
Check out Sylvia on LinkedIn!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylviamaldonado/
The Corporate Town Hall Myth ===
Speaker 4: [00:00:00] A town hall It's one small activation, an important one, but it is just one piece of a much larger communication strategy,
Speaker 4: I think sometimes these transformations fail or go over budget because everyone's resistant to change. The employees don't like change. They're resistant to change, so this is why it failed. Yeah. And it's like, no. You have to explain why you're changing and what's in it for me.
Matt: You can't just have the town hall and then expect the change to happen- Right
Matt: and then for people to be like, "Yep. Let's go do it."
Matt: The myth there is, the one and done mentality does not work.
I've got Silvia Maldonado here, who's a fractional communications chief.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. It's great to see you.
Matt: Absolutely. We've g- we have a little bit of history together. We've worked together over the years.
Matt: But, like, what's, like, the one-sentence kind of version of what you do?
Speaker 4: So I'm a fractional comms chief, as you mentioned, that helps organizations during transformation and change really refine their objectives through communications. [00:01:00] So I see myself as a business person who happens to do comms-
Matt: Yeah ...
Speaker 4: versus a comms person who's-
Matt: Mm ...
Speaker 4: telling corporate stories. Yeah. That is not so fun for me.
Matt: And so I think that's kind of important because if, if you're gonna w- you're working alongside leaders and executives, and they don't, you know, they, they, they're all about the business, right? They're like-
Speaker 4: Right, right ... this comms stuff- CEO, the CHR, the clicks, the engagement. It's like the blank stare.
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Matt: So you n- I mean, yeah, speaking that language first, making sure that you're like, "We're, we're on the same page here. We're trying to accomplish the same thing." Correct. It's kind of, it's kind of key to what you're doing, right?
Speaker 4: Correct.
Matt: I think the big headline here is helping organizations that are going through a big transformation, and, like, what does that look like, and what are some of the, the, you know, what works and what doesn't work, I think is what I want to dig into.
Matt: But, um, just to get s- to know Sylvia a little bit, uh, what'd you have for breakfast today?
Speaker 4: Coffee.
Matt: Coffee? Just straight up coffee?
Speaker 4: Uh-
Matt: Caffeine?
Speaker 4: Well, it's 50/50.
Matt: Okay.
Speaker 4: Half caf, half decaf with my oat [00:02:00] milk creamer.
Matt: Okay.
Speaker 4: Coffee cake or caramel, so it's like my dessert, and then I'll balance that with, um, I love those Aussie Bites from Costco.
Matt: Yeah, sure.
Speaker 4: They're like an elevated granola. Yeah. So it's like quinoa and farro and-
Matt: Okay. Healthy?
Speaker 4: Healthy.
Matt: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Matt: Are you a coffee drinker all day, or do you s- cut it off?
Speaker 4: No, no. No. It's one of the best.
Speaker 4: I do one. It's o- I do one. It's for the best.
Matt: Yeah, it's for the best for all of us. I don't. I wanna drink coffee all day long. I do cut it off, but, like, my desire is to drink coffee
Speaker 4: constantly.
Matt: Okay. I just love it so much.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Matt: But it's less about the caffeine, and it's more about this idea of, like, a new beginning.
Matt: Like-
Speaker 4: Yes ...
Matt: it represents something for me, so I just always want to be in that state of mind, which is probably... I might need to get that looked at. I don't know if that's a problem.
Speaker 4: It's an opportunity.
Matt: It's an opportunity, yeah.
Speaker 4: Meditation.
Matt: Yeah, exactly. But you can over... Can you over-meditate? You can over-medicate.
Matt: Yeah. Can you
Speaker 4: over-meditate? I [00:03:00] don't think so. Okay. I don't think, 'cause it's just connecting with your breath.
Matt: Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: And staying present, staying present. We have such a tendency to be future. If this happens, if this happens. And, like, staying present and anchoring back in this moment, so I feel like that state of mind can never be too much.
Speaker 4: And for me, meditation is how I get there, but- Yeah ... anywho.
Matt: What is a quality that you look for in a friend most?
Speaker 4: Health. Health? I'm coming off as a health nut, which I'm really not. I'm, like, a moderate person.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But I would say healthy.
Speaker 4: Like spiritually- Like healthy ... spiritually- Okay ... emotionally, physically. Because I feel like when you're healthy in general, you have more of a positive mindset. Mm. There's gratitude. There's being responsive instead of reactive in the workplace. Like I look- Sure ... at some people, I'm like, "Oh, gosh, I wish they would meditate more."
Speaker 4: Um, so I like being around that energy.
Matt: Yeah. But it's like take, if you can't take care of yourself, how can you really take care of a relationship?
Speaker 4: And how can you be a high performer in [00:04:00] the workplace? And how can you be a good parent and a good partner and all those things? So for me, health really is wealth.
Matt: All right. You got one week- left on this earth, how are you gonna spend it?
Speaker 4: First, I'm very practical.
Speaker 4: Okay. I'm gonna make sure, like, organs are gonna be donated-
Matt: Okay. Yeah ...
Speaker 4: if they're able to be donated.
Matt: You're thinking about other people right now.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Matt: Okay.
Speaker 4: So I'm donating all the organs and tissues- ... corneas, everything. Um, I'm making sure all the, everyone knows the passwords- Sure ... the estate's in order. So I'm gonna do all of that, which should just take like 30 minutes.
Speaker 4: Okay. Like do, do, do. It's all in order. Um, so I'm gonna do that first. I'm gonna do a huge celebration of life while I'm living. Nice. Yeah. So have like a huge party.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4: Death is a part of life, so I would hope that it would be a time You know, obviously there's gonna be some grief, but it's also like, "Hey, we have this time together." Yeah. [00:05:00] "Let's make the most of it." And what a gift that you would know in advance. Well- 'Cause you never know when your time is up.
Matt: When we were talking on the phone before, you told me that you're the least corporate com- communications person ever.
Matt: What does that mean? What does that look like to be the least corporate communications person?
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I didn't- Okay ... really identify as that at the time.
Matt: Uh-huh.
Speaker 4: And my manager, who was the president of, of, uh, the business told me that. He's like, "You know what, Silvia? You're the least corporate communications person I've ever met."
Speaker 4: He was Dutch, so he was very direct. And I was like, "Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that as a compliment." And he was smiling. Yeah. He obviously meant it- So he
Matt: meant it as a compliment ...
Speaker 4: he meant it as a compliment, but I was like, "That's a strange thing to say to the corporate comms person you just hired." And I think it's because I don't have that corporate communications background.
Matt: Mm.
Speaker 4: So I've had, like, the Peace Corps, and I started in broadcast journalism, and I worked in a nonprofit and consulting in a family [00:06:00] business. But I learned about business and telling stories before I learned how corporations tell stories.
Matt: Mm.
Speaker 4: Which are not necessarily one and the same, and I think that has served me well, because I don't appreciate corporate speak in terms of, and I'm generalizing, but in general, like, the jargon-
Speaker 3: Yeah
Speaker 4: and the speaking Greek. Like, if you can't explain something in a human-to-human, especially in this time of AI, like, if you can't talk as humans, like person to person, then you probably aren't... You probably don't know what your business strategy is. You probably don't know what you're trying to do-
Speaker 4: so I love leaders who are unfamiliar with communications. They've never worked with it as a function. As
Matt: like a more of a, like, a formal function-
Speaker 4: As a formal function ... versus like just a natural thing. Yeah, total. As a formal function.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I love leaders like that- Yeah ... because then I can expose them to, like, my style of communications, which is very much outcomes focused.
Speaker 4: It's focused on the [00:07:00] business. And the thing with communications, tends to be opaque.
Speaker 4: Like, you can't necessarily say or point to a causal relationship, but you can find cor- correlations, and you can find data points that do build the business case for the impact that comms has.
Matt: Can you give me an example of, of that or something that maybe has happened in your career where you look back and you can see the connection or the correlation?
Speaker 4: At one of my previous jobs, they had never had communications before, and they were very scared to do communications because it was B2B, they didn't want the perception of competing with clients.
Speaker 4: And I think also culturally the company was based in Europe, and it was just very much this, this mentality of like, "We need to stay quiet. We need to stay under the radar. We can't say or do anything that will affect the stock price."
Speaker 4: I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna meet them where they're at. Externally, they don't wanna say very much, so I'm gonna focus on internal- Mm-hmm ... meeting the business internally with the needs they have internally, specifically around people and the plant."
Matt: Yep.
Speaker 4: Very, [00:08:00] very, very high turnover. Turnover. So it was like, let's try to move these numbers with retention, and we identified one plant as like a pilot plant.
Speaker 4: So let's run some communications initiatives, some manager trainings. Let's take a year. Let's put some dollars behind it. Let's partner very closely with local HR, 'cause you need local partners on the ground if you're in corporate-
Speaker 3: Yeah ...
Speaker 4: who can really execute and really kind of follow through and we were able, I think it was after nine months, to improve it by, like, 15 points, which was huge.
Speaker 4: You know, there was a lot of, um, leadership training, there was manager training. But I think you really need the partnerships, you need the buy-in from the C-suite. Like, it needs to be a priority for them as well.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then you need the budget, obviously, and the capability.
Matt: It sounds like you were kind of entrepreneurial in your approach.
Matt: Help me understand how you went from, like, okay, [00:09:00] day one to, like, now I'm selling the CEO to spend money in X, Y, and Z on this.
Speaker 4: It is very entrepreneurial. I was part of the leadership team sitting in all these meetings, and I could just see like, oh my gosh. And it's not an HR problem.
Matt: Well, wouldn't it traditionally be seen as that? Like, wouldn't-
Speaker 4: It would traditionally-
Matt: I, I mean, maybe not always, but it seems like, it seems like that's what I would go to.
Speaker 4: It would,
Matt: it- HR, figure this out. Exactly. Like, keep our people around.
Speaker 4: Exactly. Stop letting them
Matt: go.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Exactly, and I think this is where the communications function is so instrumental and so it can be such a strategic advisor and strategic partner because, yes, that would traditionally be HR. Mm-hmm. But HR doesn't necessarily have the, um- The toolkit or the...
Speaker 4: Sometimes they think very much in terms of compliance- Yeah ... and we don't wanna get sued, and it's a risk mitigating function.
Matt: Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4: Versus a more entrepreneurial-
Matt: Yeah, proactive, let's go do something- Proactive ... we
Speaker 4: haven't
Matt: done before. [00:10:00]
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Matt: Let's go do- let's, let's go create an event or
Speaker 4: something.
Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Interesting. Let's have some more recognition.
Speaker 4: It's a pilot. In a
Matt: pilot, yeah.
Speaker 4: It's a pilot. Right. It's a startup, and it's really fun. And for HR, I think sometimes traditionally, it's like, "Oh, no, this isn't, this isn't what we do."
Matt: Right.
Speaker 4: But I think in communications, you have the freedom to really say, like, "Hey, let's-
Matt: Yeah ...
Speaker 4: this is a need of the business, and we need to like fix this all together."
Matt: Thinking about- Transformation and, and thinking about like, uh, specific like with leadership, that was something that we talked about.
Matt: What are some of those myths
Speaker 4: I mean, there's so, there's so many. I think a few that come off to mind just off the top of my head are, we did a town hall So every transformation has a name.
Matt: Yeah. It,
Speaker 4: it always has a jazzy name. You know, Phoenix, Power- Powerhouse, Next Level, Level Up. We're gonna do a town hall to announce this transformation, whatever it's called, and we do the town hall so everyone knows about it.
Matt: [00:11:00] Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4: Everyone understands it, everyone knows about it, everyone's jazzed about it, so now we can, like, proceed to our 42 work streams- Back, back to-
Speaker 4: to implement the transformation.
Matt: Right.
Speaker 4: And it's like, no. A town hall It's one small activation, an important one, but it is just one piece of a much larger communication strategy, which is anchored in the transformation strategy .
Matt: What's an example of that, w- a, a transformation?
Speaker 4: So a transformation, let's say we're gonna optimize the footprint for factories.
Matt: Okay. Make, make them run more efficiently and have them-
Speaker 4: Close factories.
Speaker 4: And we're going to... And it's called foot- footprint optimization, but it means closing factories, and we're going to have some headcount changes, and we're gonna have some shared service centers overseas.
Speaker 4: And this is gonna be... Those are the three big pillars, and there's gonna be 35 [00:12:00] different work streams all at the same time, and we're also gonna change all our systems and processes so that procurement runs more efficiently- Mm ... and people can track their shipments, and everything has a QR code, and our warehouses...
Speaker 4: Like, we're gonna do all these changes at the same time, and they need to be done, but we're gonna do them all together at the same time. I think sometimes these transformations fail or go over budget or don't achieve everything that they are s- seeking to do because everyone's resistant to change. The employees don't like change. They're resistant to change, so this is why it failed. Yeah. And it's like, no. Like, you have to take... You have to explain why you're changing and what's in it for me.
Matt: The simplest version of that is, okay, how it affects a, you know, knowledge worker in office, and they're gonna go from pen and paper to fill out a form or something like that, and even if they have that, like, "What are we doing?
Matt: Why are we doing it? What's in it for me?" They also, like, then need to be handheld, like, through the how part of it, right? Yes. Which is like, [00:13:00] "Okay, now let's go do this. Okay, now let's also experience the impact to you," 'cause you're still not gonna believe it even if I'm hearing it from the corporate-
Speaker 4: Right
Matt: headquarters. Like, I, I've been, okay, I understand it. I understand it, but that doesn't necessarily mean I feel it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Matt: There's al- so much more to it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Matt: You can't just have the town hall and then expect the change to happen- Right
Matt: and then for people to be like, "Yep. Let's go do it."
Matt: The myth there is, like, the one and done mentality does not, does not work.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Matt: That's the myth.
Speaker 4: Correct. Correct.
Matt: What are some more things when, when you think about town halls that kind of come to mind, like, where people get it wrong.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think when the CEOs talk too much-
Matt: Okay.
Matt: Yes ...
Speaker 4: in a town hall. Yeah. And I love to hear CEOs speak, and I think they- set the North Star and the strategy and communicate it really, can communicate it very well. So they should definitely play a part, but often it's the [00:14:00] CEO and the CFO like corporate speak for- Mm-hmm ... 20 or 30 minutes, and the town hall's 45 minutes, and it's just them going on and on.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And it's just not engaging. It should be other people on the leadership team, it should be managers who are so critical, and also peers, and also let's say it's manufacturing, like front- In
Matt: terms of people who are speaking in the town hall?
Speaker 4: Yes.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yes. And also frontline workers, like the people who are actually, if it's manufacturing, the people who are really doing the work, or if you're in healthcare, you know, the nurses or the EMTs. Yeah. I think it's a huge opportunity for recognition.
Matt: We've done things where we have like a Q&A with the CEO, right? And then there are questions that are submitted sort of anonymously.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Matt: And you use those questions, and somebody facilitates and asks those questions. That's, that's one way you could bring the voice in. Does that work or do you, have you seen ways that work and ways that don't work to bring those voices in?
Matt: I think that [00:15:00]
Speaker 4: works. I think it's also recognizing for some people, being featured in a town hall is like their worst nightmare.
Matt: Yeah, like I don't wanna be on camera. I don't wanna be in front of, uh, 5 to 20,000 employees.
Speaker 4: Right.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, right, right, right. So like for s- for me, I'm like, oh my God, that's great recognition, and like your factory or your plant or your hospital or like that's wonderful.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Like, you are the poster child. Like, that's such a great recognition opportunity. But then it's like, yeah, so not everyone likes... So just identifying, so you need to be very, very close to the business and know like identifying who are the people who perceive it as, oh wow, this is great, this is recognition- Mm
Speaker 4: versus the people who are like, "Oh my gosh, I do not wanna do this." So I think people receive, receive recognition and rewards in different ways. Yeah. So identifying what their drivers are and who would be jazzed by it and who wouldn't, I think that's really important.
Matt: Have you ever had that experience when somebody [00:16:00] else comes in and they're just not the same CEO?
Speaker 4: Yes. Yeah.
Matt: How do you, how do you approach that? Yeah. Where do you start? How do you work with them?
Speaker 4: I've had CEOs out of central casting, like marketing backgrounds, like-
Matt: Like, "Whoa, you are a soundbite machine."
Speaker 4: Exactly. And clearly you're gonna be global CEO one day, which, which he was. Um, like I could just tell, and then, yes, the guy after him, CEO after him, totally polar opposite.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Like polar opposite. And, you know, to my point, I think the comms has to reflect the CEO, and like it's not one size fits all. And he was like- Mm-hmm ... "Sylv, I don't like doing live town halls." Right. "I want them pre-recorded." Fine. Fine. We'll get the live, like we'll get the jazz, we'll get the live component, we'll get that experience in other parts from other people and the CEO, and he can do a pre-recorded.
Speaker 4: Or he's like, "I wanna do one-on-one videos with you, just where I'm talking with you."
Matt: Mm. "
Speaker 4: I wanna do fireside chats [00:17:00] with up to 30 people." You know, like he told me, which was a huge gift, so I didn't have to... So he wasn't resistant to comms, he just needed a completely different style and format-
Speaker 3: Yeah ...
Speaker 4: than the previous CEO- Sure
Speaker 4: who, you know, was like the soundbite machine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Um, so we think as long as there's an appetite for comms and an realization that it's an expectation, you know, I think the thing that's frustrating when CEOs are like, "Oh, yeah, comms, that's not my job. Like I have the numbers, sales, commercial, that's my job.
Speaker 4: Comms is like fluffy and not my job." It's like, "No, it actually, it really is your job."
Speaker 4: It's
Matt: a different way of thinking. It's a different way of seeing the world- Right ... if you don't really view it that way.
Matt: And also I think- You know, as you're talking, I'm realizing, like, you know what?
Matt: Not even- you can still be a great leader and not view comms as a vital thing, because maybe you didn't come up that way. Like, if you come up through and you are the CFO or whatever, like, maybe that was never part of... Somebody else was [00:18:00] always doing that part or whatever. Even though you might be passionate, that might not be your skill set.
Matt: Um, and so then you, you really do have to change how you see the world. You have to change, 'cause you're- you got a different role now.
Speaker 4: Right.
Matt: Um-
Speaker 4: Right ... at a certain level And you need to embrace it. And that's, I feel like that's my job. Like, if you haven't had exposure to it, totally cool. Like, if you wanna do media numbers, let's do media training.
Speaker 4: Let's do coaching.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Town halls. Like, then we can just practice. It's a skill like anything else. You wanna play tennis, paddleball? Cool. Like, you gotta practice. Yeah. And I think communications is the same way. I think it's just having that growth mindset, having the appetite, and seeing it as, like, a strategic unlock.
Speaker 4: So, working with CEOs or helping them get to that place, I really enjoy, and sometimes you're not gonna get there.
Speaker 4: Most cases, CEOs are like, "Yeah," like, "We get it. We need you. This is what..." And they don't even know what they want half the time, and that's also fine.
Matt: Right.
Speaker 4: [00:19:00] You know?
Matt: Right, right, right.
Matt: And that's part of your job, right? That's part of my job ... is to help them go through that so they can- Yeah ... it's okay to not, it's okay to not know what you want.
Speaker 4: Right.
Matt: That's the point.
Speaker 4: Right.
Matt: Uh, but it's not okay to not communicate.
Speaker 4: Right. Right.
Matt: And, and one thing I wanted to ask you know, FUNGI, we're a... You know, the goal of what we're doing is to build trust, right, with the audience. And one of the ways we do that is through creating content to help connect the dots, and video is a way to scale your message, right? Where does content fit into that sort of that puzzle piece for you? Is that something that has gotta be a part of how you get that message out?
Matt: Um, I'm just curious. What, what comes to mind when
Speaker 4: you think about that? Yeah. So content I start with the business outcome, or this is the opportunity, this is the need.
Matt: That's the strategic part.
Speaker 4: The strategic part. And then I back, and then I look at the time horizon, the capability, the budget, and then I kind of [00:20:00] backfill from there.
Speaker 4: So I don't lead with content.
Matt: Of course. It's a tactic.
Speaker 4: Correct. Correct. And then I go and then I say, "Okay, this is the outcome, and this is what we're trying to..." You know, investors, or the mayor, or employees, or... You have to segment and slice and dice- Yeah ... to your audience, and then you have to think about the timing, the distribution, the budget.
Speaker 4: And then I think about, okay, how can I reach these people in the most effective way? What are the platforms, the channels? Is it video? Is it... You know, then I get into the nitty-gritty, the distribution of the content. The- Who's the spokesperson? You know, w- what's the... And then you can kind of ideate and brainstorm, and I feel like that's such a great piece of comms, but I think you also need to think about kind of hand-in-hand with the content are what are the KPIs and how did it move the needle?
Matt: Right. Yeah. Like, you're measuring it as you're- Measuring it- ... as you're releasing it, as you're putting, putting this effort.
Speaker 4: As you're [00:21:00] releasing it, and even before you're producing it, these are the outcomes that I need to see. These are the numbers that I'm measuring. These are the numbers I wanna see.
Speaker 4: This is the baseline. And then you can kind of go back and measure and, you know, you're iterating as you're going.
Matt: Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 4: And you're measuring and you're seeing how's it going and, um-
Matt: And the way that you're measuring, are you thinking of, like, in pre- you know, how many people watched it, engagement, some of those classic things, or are there other kind of things you're measuring as well?
Speaker 4: It depends on what the north star is. So if it's talent, is it, like, a retention number?
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4: If it's, you know, we're not getting enough women, we're not recruiting enough m- we're not hiring enough women, okay, let's look at TA. What kind of candidates? We're not getting enough, less of an issue now perhaps, but there's not enough diverse candidates.
Matt: Right.
Speaker 4: So let's look at the, what are the systems? I think a lot of it is systems and process work as well. For sure. So again, it's not traditional comms per se, but it's like if you're [00:22:00] anchoring, you're hanging your hat on the business and business outcomes, which is what I'm doing. I'm hanging my hat on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. 'Cause I feel like hanging your hat on traditional comms- Especially in this age of AI, you never wanna be commoditized, you never wanna be outsourced, you never want to say like, "Oh, somebody can write that speech for me," or, "Somebody can, you know, AI can do this for me or do that, write that press release for me."
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: You need to be that strategic partner. So I think, you know, content is a vital, vital piece of that, as part of a much bigger strategy- Yeah ... and ecosystem. Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And it has to be engaging, it has to be snackable.
Matt: So, well, Sylvia, this has been awesome. I have to ask one last question- Sure ... I ask everybody, which is, what is a word or phrase that we should no longer use in the workplace? What comes to mind? Anything.
Speaker 4: Optimize.
Matt: Optimize.
Speaker 4: Cascade.
Matt: Cascade?
Speaker 4: Cascade.
Matt: Optimize, cascade.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Matt: What could we say instead?
Speaker 4: Improve.
Matt: [00:23:00] Make it better.
Speaker 4: Improve. Make it better.
Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna, I don't think I say optimize that often. I hope I don't.
Speaker 4: You know, when I- But I'm not gonna say it anymore
Speaker 4: joined corporate, I had to learn this whole new language, so I actually, those types of words have slipped in, and I'm just like, "Syl," eh.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know? It's like-
Matt: That's not you. Yeah.
Speaker 4: No, I know. I don't
Matt: say that word. Cascade is one that, like, when I hear that one, it really does give me a little bit of a cringe.
Speaker 4: We're not in Niagara Falls. We're not. Like, let's-
Matt: But wouldn't it be nice if we were?
Speaker 4: It would be nice if we were.
Matt: But that's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 4: That's not what we're talking about. We're talking
Matt: about something else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's just, share.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Spread the word.
Matt: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know? It's just, like... So those two words I just, are overplayed.
Matt: Well, Silvia, thank you for optimizing your message- ... and cascading it with me. Uh, this has been awesome. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: So much fun. Thank you.